There is a lot of debate right now about whether or not a mosque (also reported as a Muslim community center, but in the grand scheme of things, it matters not) should be allowed to be built at ground zero of the September 11th terror attacks. The pro side is trying to hold true to the 1st amendment to the constitution that promotes religious freedom in this country. The opposing side views this as a slap in the face of the 9/11 victims' families & survivors as the idea of an Islamic center on the site of a terror attack carried out by people of the Islamic faith is like saying the terrorists won (Background articles: Fox News & CNN). Each side has been very passionate about their stance. Passion, however can also be used to cover ignorance.
I feel like the opposing side's argument (in some cases, not every) can be boiled down into 3 factors which are as follows:
1. Devastation The events of 9/11 were horrific. Any North American of age will be able to tell you where they were and what they were doing when they heard the news. The nation's collective heart broke that morning. In the midst of this tragedy, people stood together not only in the rescue effort but in the emotional & physical recovery effort. However, the scars are still very visible.
The people that argue so strongly against this Muslim center want to keep this pain fresh in the minds of the people so that they will stand with them. They want to blur the focus from a group of citizens that want to build a religious center, to the group of people that perpetrated the 9/11 attacks.
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| Pic courtesy of http://continenteconomy.blogspot.com/ |
2. Fear
Nobody wanted to fly on Sept. 12th. The fear generated from this attack and the threat of another still rings out today. Evidence of this can be found in the Terror Alert Level. Like we are supposed to believe that the TSA can gauge the threat of a terror attack like it's the temperature or something (GTFOHWTBS! Google it if you are confused). The people arguing that the Islamic community shouldn't have a building so close to the site of this terror attack are trying to keep everyone on guard. Phrases like "This Mosque Celebrates Our Murderers." just highlights the fact that they are grouping the Islamic faith with the extremist, terrorist group that carried out those attacks.
And, as time has shown again & again, what is the result of stereotyping & grouping a certain segment of people together because of the fears of the majority & the negative actions of a few...
3. Prejudice
Whenever you judge and treat an entire group of people negatively because of the actions of a small segment of that population, you are being prejudice (The actual definition is "preconceived judgment or opinion. An adverse opinion or leaning formed without just grounds or before sufficient knowledge"). They are trying to wrap their prejudice views in a flag and call it patriotism.
Side Note: This is also the case in the immigration debate. How can a country that was founded by a bunch of illegal immigrants that overthrew (and damn near wiped out) the original citizens be so opposed to more immigrants trying to join this country??? Do they they really think the same thing that their ancestors did could happen again? But I digress...
Limiting the freedom of religion is very unAmerican. To say that they should not be allowed to go through the proper channels and build a mosque, or community center, is approaching segregation. The expectation that they should get approval and go where they say and not anywhere else is like the Jim Crow days trying to return.
What are your thoughts about this issue? Do you feel that the mosque should be moved or that it should be built at ground zero? Do you feel like prejudice is too strong of a term?
You're so gay.
ReplyDeleteI didn't think you'd go political on your blog, but turns out I was wrong.
ReplyDeleteYour points are valid, but I want to add on. If anything, the voices of devastation should only come from those that has lost someone on or following the events of 9/11. Too many are using this as a symbol for personal attacks of their freedom, but really, why would one care about what happens in an abandoned Burlington Coat Factory building 2 blocks from the center? Most people don't seem to realize that in NYC, there are very separate sub communities, even after just 2 blocks. What about the fact that there are pubs, strip clubs and whatever else near Ground Zero? Isn't that being insensitive to the mourners and visitors by trying to cash in on them? But to them, it also means that it's business as usual. I lost a distant relative in 9/11, I should have a say if these critics hold true to their word, and I think the community center's reaction proves why there needs to be one. It's being built as a way to mediate through the misunderstanding and differences and it's actually helping them prove their cause.
That whole generalizing of a minority's beliefs and action and superimposing to the entire group is a tried and tested method just to smear a group of people. I don't get it, but it works. But if they're going to go that way, I can turn the tables around and ask if anyone can justify the Crusaders romping through Europe back in the day and see the parallels to this too. One can easily construct an argument to say that Americans are terrorists to the world too.
I completely share your analogy for the immigration debate. I think it really comes down to the fact that America's landscape is changing so much faster than before and people are just getting scared, because they're only used to how things were and didn't want their cocoon shell to break off. It's also puzzling because they are the very type of people who proclaim that America is the best and everything should be American, without realizing other people in the world want that too and thus they came over to share the same dream, but in a different way. I don't want to say that they had it coming, but it's hard not to see the chain of events that led to this.
How one can claim their right to the constitution, but be selective or worse, be exclusive in that interpretation is just preposterous. A lot of the critics to this plan is acknowledging that, yes, they have the 'right', but they 'shouldn't.' Who is anyone to prevent someone from obeying the law?
Long story short, this is supposed to be a non issue. They have the right to do whatever they want with the place they legally own. Critics can claim that it should be built further away, but honestly, how far is good enough? There will always be people that won't allow it (see hoardes of people protesting any building of mosques or Islamic centers across the country), so there is literally no end. It's all a big political spin.
This is a pretty good article. (http://www.cracked.com/blog/3-reasons-the-ground-zero-mosque-debate-makes-no-sense)
I think it's pretty messed up. Now i'm all about freedom to practice whatever religion you believe in, but from a standpoint of morality the only thing I keep thinking about with this is, of all the places in the city of New York...they HAD to build a Mosque there?!?! I think they could have used better judgment and understand the sensitivity involved with that decision.
ReplyDeleteAfter the Oklahoma City terrorist attack, nobody objected to any churches being built around that site because Timothy McVeigh was a white christian. The Christian church didn't endorse McVeigh's actions, the same way the Islamic community didn't endorse the actions of Al Queda.
ReplyDeleteIt isnt right but I think its a bad idea, not for the people who mourn for 9/11 but the for the actual ones who are building the center. You are basically asking for trouble. What are your reasons for building it htere at that specific spot? If yiur reasoning is to stir up some controversy so you can try and bring attention to your religion so you can educate others on the TRUE peaceful meaning of it by then all means, build it there. But if you are building as just a place of worship then build it elsewhere because you will spend just as much time dealing with vandals and protestors than you will worshipping. to say they cant put it htere is blatant racism though and my pride would probably force me to build the mosque thre anyway but you have to think about the negative that comes with it. I hope they are prepared for it and i hope it works out in their favor.
ReplyDeleteI agree that they will have to go through a lot of hassle for building there. They could be building there because they want to spread knowledge about their religion, or they could just want to build there because the property is cheap. Either way, it's their right to do so and we shouldn't be making a huge deal of it.
ReplyDeleteLol...man...u crazy lol. Timothy McVeigh didn't do it in the name of Christianity. Extremist Islam did it in the name of Islam. Secondly, NO ONE has EVER said they dont have the right to build that mosque there just that its dumb. No libera...ls even mention that the majority of the Muslim community doesn't want it there. U wanna talk about ignorance? lol how fuckin ignorant is it to think that mosque can go THERE of all places and there not be a backlash? Muslims know this. But of course extremist Islam comes out and SUPPORTS the fuckin thing. So the peaceful muslims (The head of Al Arabiya TV, Muslim scholars here in America...Miss fuckin America!!!) are against it...and Al-Qaeda is for it...and ur for it too lol. Way to fight for freedom lol. Peaceful muslims will suffer & Extremist Islam will gain sympathy from that. Great idea smh. There are SO many reasons NOT to build it there and the ONLY reason...the OOOOONLYYYY reason mosque supporters sight is "They have the right". That is laughably flimsy lol. Having the right is not a reason. Whats 1 good reason? cuz there are MANY reasons to build it elsewhere...
ReplyDeleteAnd if u want specific shit: Mosques are the 2nd leading source of funds for extremist Islam behind drugs. NOT to say Mosques are bad, but if u have Hamas BACKING the WTC Mosque...Hmmmm lol...suspect maybe?
Cheap property...in the financial district of NYC...*Slaps forehead*
Mass Islamophobia is a myth.
I really wanna kick that GTG person that commented in the face lol. "the voices of devastation should only come from those that has lost someone on or following the events of 9/11.". Woooooooow lol. These people want me dead. They dont want me broke. They dont want me w/o electricity lol. They want me and everyone reading this DEAD...but I shouldnt take that personally until they succeed. HAHA! I hate liberals sometimes, yo.
So you support extremist Islam every time you buy a dime bag...how is that fighting for freedom?
ReplyDeleteI like that thats what u took from the it lol. They sell heroin and opium mostly and I buy weed grown in America anyway. USA!!!
ReplyDeleteSN: Another reason for them to legalize weed. Word to my man Dennis.
I'm not claiming to know the facts behind why they are building it there, what they are paying to build it there, or where they send their money. People have the right to be on either side of the issue, and like we all agree, they have the ...right to build there under the first amendment. However, people are trying to block this through the legal system saying it's insensitive and an insult. That's where I have a problem.
ReplyDeleteEvery muslim does NOT want you dead. People can take action in whatever name they choose without being supported by that name. The world wide muslim community did not support 9/11, just the extremists that supported the terrorists. You can't point the finger at the entire religion because of the actions of a few.
There are many cases where the first amendment gives you the right to do something that isn't a good idea. If the white supremacists decided to build a monument on the spot MLK was killed to commemorate his murder, than legal action should be taken to prevent this because of the nature of the situation. If a muslim store owner wants to open a shop at the site of a car bombing done by muslim terrorists, he should not be blocked because he had nothing to do with it and is not celebrating the deaths of innocents.
This 'one bad apple spoils the bunch' mentality is what made life difficult for Blacks in this country for years and is what's making Blacks just as guilty of it as Whites now a days.
I agree with Mark. It is their right, definitely. But there's nothing good that will come out of that. For them, it's celebrated..by them I mean the extremists..it's a celebration to build something there and for everyone else a slap in the... face. It's stupid to build it there..cuz it still won't be peaceful. There are way too many ppl that don't support it, so the mosque gonna catch hell and be disrespected all the time. They gon backlash and here we go ..a circle. Lol, nah..maybe not that far. But all in all..it's dumb. I don't support it.
ReplyDeleteI agree with it being "legally" ok. But NO.
"These people" meaning extremist Islam. Not all muslims lol. See u made RiShann specify cuz of that lol. U knew what I was sayin, man. This Muslim is sitting 3 feet from me Im not scared of him. Every single person in Hamas wants us dead. ...DEAD.
ReplyDeleteThats inconsistent as hell, dog. Rights are the same no matter what u believe in, whether we agree w/ it or not. If the KKK owned the property MLK was killed on they have the same right to build on it as everyone else. Its a question of wisdom and sensitivity.
I am against legal action prohibiting the mosque and Im sure whatever legal action thats being taken will fail but Im not gonna fuckin support that dumb ass shit. Yall might say Im wilding but I would speak for the KKK's right to build a center where MLK was killed too...but I wouldnt support the building of it.
I really wish the Muslim voices against the mosque would be heard by the media more cuz all the anti-muslim/Islamophobia myth is so much worse for their community than the mosque even.
And I seen this fuckin thing. It is NOT 2 blocks away. U cross the street and turn the corner and its RIGHT there. That 2 blocks away shit is a marvel of geometric propaganda lol
@ Ryan - So just to make sure were actually disagreeing here: ...Do u support the actual construction of this mosque here?
So if they are to use this facility to spread education about Islam and show how different the extremist's views are from most Muslim's, you don't think it will do any good?
ReplyDeleteThe difference between this situation and the KKK example I gave, i...s that one group is taking credit and being inflammatory in their execution of their first amendment right. That's why I feel like action should be taken to prevent it in that example.
Mark, I'm indifferent. I don't feel like the location of this mosque should be a problem and that most of the arguments against it are boiled down into the 3 points I made in my post. At the same time, I'm not signing petitions and sending money to help them move forward with it.
In that location the only thing that will spread is infidel piss all over the mosque floor. Peaceful muslim groups are BEGGING to be heard but they get no love. The only reason this is getting publicity is cuz its politically polarized...wh...ich is why we need to look at the ACTUAL agenda here. Not just extremist Islam's agenda but the politician and media agenda.
ReplyDeleteThe KKK has never taken credit for MLKs assassination. Yes itd be inflammatory...but so wud the mosque! Im personally an inflammatory dude on the whole. Fuck ur moms lol. U cant take a right from sum1 cuz it makes u mad.
The location of the mosque is a problem for the same reason as in the KKK analogy. That shit is just entirely foolish to me but I guess we gotta agree to disagree at this point.
This discussion of how that specific location is too close is just silly. How far is far enough? Soon, people will expand this to say, not in this city, county, etc. You do realize there is a huge population of muslims in NYC too right? When will this discussion evolve to the stage where muslims shouldn't be around the WTC because their mere presense is offensive to Americans? Are you insinuating that places should be designated so that certain groups of people belonging to a particular affiliation shouldn't be near that place? That's moving the country backwards.
ReplyDeleteTo be frank, I've had way too many conversation with people that just aren't educated enough about Islam. Islam has unfortunately been always associated with terrorism and extremism, starting with Malcolm X. When segregationists didn't have much good excuse for their beliefs, they went after another thing that separated them aside from the color of their skin, enter religion. This hated for Islam continued with the meddling of Middle East, and the continued coverage of how backward the media made the gulf nations look. This made people see only one side and when 9/11 struck, this certainly didn't help.
It's all about perception here. Few bad apples don't make the entire crate bad. I see some comments implying this community center will be a hotbed of extremists. Do you have any proof? If that's the case, wouldn't that make it easy for us to nab the potential extremists before they actually do something?
Mark, I'd like to see some legitimate citation that shows majority of muslims doesn't want the community center there, because I think that's not true at all. Please remember I'm heavily trained in statistics, so I'm going to assume any statistics involved in such a debate is more than likely biased. Then, you can kick me, not that you haven't done that already by implying all muslims want you and specifically you dead. You tend to ignore that there are many other high profile figures supporting the plan to build this there too. Just because a TV station head and Miss America (why does her opinion matter, I really don't know) said so? When did they come to represent the Islamic community's voice?
Hot off the presses.
ReplyDeletehttp://townhall.com/columnists/ThomasSowell/2010/08/31/the_mosque_controversy/page/1
Thats my favorite Author btw. HARLEM!!!
He reiterated my point, a lot of the people that are against this project are holding Muslims responsible for 9/11. That, in itself, will lead to prejudice.
ReplyDeleteErm. What was the intent of citing that article supposed to be? He's YOUR favorite author, so his opinion must be right for all? I too can easily pull an article that advocates why this should be built and make an equal claim that I'm right. Let me try that too then, by citing this piece by Nicholas Kristof of the New York Times - http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/22/opinion/22kristof.html
ReplyDeleteBam. Now what?
On a more serious note, let me cite a portion of your article for my point.
"There is no question that Muslims have a right to build a mosque where they chose to. The real question is why they chose that particular location, in a country that covers more than 3 million square miles."
Is he aware that there are other mosques being built in other parts of the country (California, Tennessee, etc) and are also facing backlash, not because of their choice of location, but for being a mosque, he would not have made such a point. It doesn't matter where they build the mosque (well, let's be honest, it's really a community center, but no one cares about that little fact do they), it's going to be scrutinized anyway.
That point alone highlights that there is a real concern for growing Islamophobia in this country.